There are already antivax folk online citing this yet to be peer-reviewed, unverified by similar research, small but interesting study as infallible evidence against COVID vaccination. I am astonished they found it so quickly, but I am not at all surprised that they grossly misinterpreted it.
What you don’t seem to understand is that the “antivax” people aren’t against vaccines, they are against unsafe vaccines.
The pharmaceutical companies put neurotoxins, like aluminum and thimerosal (which contains mercury), in the vaccines and shots to force the body to react.
What was injected into people was a shot, like the flu shot. They called it a vaccine so people would be more likely to get the shot.
Maybe what you call “misinterpreted” is those people having hope that research will be done to determine if the all
injectables are actually safe.
It would have been nice if all the criticisms of the study had been accounted for, but at least someone took the first step to find some answers.
The ingredients for all vaccines, especially the ones we're discussing here, the COVID vaccines, are easily found. The "neurotoxins" you refer to are NOT in those vaccines. Look it up. The definition of a vaccine is something (it could come from pus from an infected person like the first smallpox vaccine did) that causes your body to produce antibodies. That's what ALL vaccines do. The flu "shot" is a vaccine. All of them are. If you don't believe that's important, just have a wander through the death rates from polio, measles, tetanus, whooping cough and a whole host of other diseases that most of us have forgotten about BECAUSE VACCINES ARE SO SUCCESSFUL. Unfortunately anti-vaxxers ARE against vaccines. They can use whatever weasel words they want, but they ARE against vaccines.
Also keep in mind that vaccines are NOT a Star Wars Force Field. They simply cannot keep a virus from entering your body. They CAN mobilize the troops quickly to get rid of the virus once it's IN the body. That's how they work. The way they reduce spread in a community is by keeping most people from getting sick, or really sick, or dying. They are NOT 100% effective. Nothing is. But they ARE effective to a very high level.
Vaccines are also in a very unique situation, in that you give basically a medical treatment to a person who isn't sick (yet). We rarely do that in any other situations. People are different and some people react differently to various vaccines. I react to the artificial flavouring in certain kinds of cough lozenges. Some people react to peanuts. Some will, unfortunately, react to certain vaccines. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't safe. It means people are different. Over 16 Billion doses of COVID vaccines were administered globally. If they're so unsafe, where are the bodies? I've personally received 6 COVID mRNA vaccinations in the past 3 or 4 years. The worst I've experienced is a sore arm for a day. I also got COVID once, somewhere in those 3 or 4 years. I was tired for a day so I lay around and rested. That was it. BECAUSE of the vaccinations I'd received.
As for the mRNA itself, anyone who has taken Biology in High School might remember that mRNA is naturally found in most cells of the body where it works away to help make proteins. And no, mRNA cannot change your DNA. It's simply impossible.
Frankly, I think anti-vaxxers want us to go back to Medieval days where we had to resort of ineffective "treatments" like bloodletting and such.
Do your own scientific inquiry. As best you can, set aside what you know, any opinions, preconceived ideas or biases, and watch some of RFKJ’s videos where he presents the data.
Ignore what the media says about him and focus on the data. The data raises some questions.
There are some correlations that are worth investigating to determine if there is causation.
I do not know anyone that believes all vaccines and shots are bad. The extremists make the rest of us that have questions and are challenging the narrative look crazy. It’s the same with the crazies on the Left and the Right.
I am not crazy. I am educated and worked in a Cellular Biology lab at the local medical school. I worked with a PhD how was researching the cause of Septal Valve Defects in Down Syndrome patients. Our research was aimed at determining why those little valve cells stop progressing across the underlying matrix. We used chicken embryos for the control group and mice that were bred to have VSD.
In my “spare time” I was using SEM and gold leaf to follow the development of the arteries on the heart. FASCINATING!
I also worked in a Pathology lab.
But, I digress…
The very heart of and basis of science
is to question. We were not allowed to question. It is the first step
In the Scientific Method. List your hypothesis, aka your question.
Doctors that presented their observations from the patients they treated were silenced/cancelled, and threatened with the loss of their license. They had to go along with the narrative or suffer the consequences.
It has now been revealed that they were CORRECT! No surprise to me. From the beginning, nothing the government said made sense. It wasn’t logical. A teeny, tiny, microscopic virus would not be stopped by wearing a surgical mask. They were designed to protect patients on the operating table from sneezes and coughs.
The problems I have, as a “blood-letting
anti-vaxer” is that I don’t trust the government/Big Pharma anymore. They have lied and suppressed information for decades.
A big red flag is that the government gave immunity to the pharmaceutical companies. They cannot be sued for vaccine harm. After that, the number of new, required vaccinations went through the roof right along with the increased number of neurological disorders in children.
Correlation or causation?? That should be studied. Again, it raises questions that are not being addressed.
I don’t remember which vac on the schedule it is that had a horrible safety tracking system. Each time a dose was administered, the child was followed for 5 days. ONLY 5 DAYS! They didn’t really want to know if it was safe. It begs the question, did they already know their vaccine wasn’t safe?
I am so thankful, and so are my sons, that I turned down the Gardasil vaccine, that is given at age 12. Fifteen plus years ago we were inundated with information on the necessity of this vaccine. Now we know it is not safe. It would be interesting to know what their adverse reaction tracking plan was. How long was its safety studied before it went to market?
Again, questions!
Other issues I have are that physicians can suffer their own adverse effects, if their vaccination rate isn’t high enough.
Also, parents are told if they don’t give their babies/children at least the minimum required for school admission, they have to find another doctor.
This is a fact. My grandson was recently born. That is what they were told by the pediatrician. Coercion!
Doctors are paid for every vaccine they give. So, for the MMR, the doc is paid for each of the diseases.
Why are new born babies always given the HepB vax in the hospital? Newborns do not fit into the risk categories.
All of the moms are tested. A HepB negative mom cannot give her baby the disease. There is no MEDICAL reason for a baby of a healthy mom to be given the shot.
“Gain of function” research is so dangerous and it didn’t start with Fauci. Look into Lyme Disease. Scary stuff that might explain why Lyme and its co-infections are nearly impossible to cure and more government coverup.
The COVID pandemic is proof of that. Fauci had his dirty hands in that pot for a long time.
Again, the government lied and suppressed information.
More Questions!
Do you know why they demonized, mocked, and suppressed information about
Ivermectin, HCQ, and other at home treatments? Both of those are proven, viable treatments for COVID.
The answer is, If a treatment already existed for this virus, the pharmaceutical companies could not get the emergency use authorization they needed to bring their drugs to market. Millions of people were forced to take the shot. I do mean forced! It is coercion for an employer to fire employees, if they do not get the shot.
My husband very likely would be dead if my friend hadn’t known of an online doctor option. My husband’s doc, at the time, told him to take Tylenol, hydrate, and rest. Naturally, the infection and inflammation increased at a record pace.
The online doc gave my husband a 3 page protocol to follow. He was prescribed Ivermectin. Luckily, I was able to find an in network pharmacy that would fill the prescription. He was also prescribed Budesonide and a nebulizer. That kept him from having to go to the hospital. The rest of the protocol was over the counter. Thankfully, I already had a bunch of what he needed at home. Controversial things like, Zyrtec, Vit C, Vit D, NAC, probiotics…I also had HCQ on hand.
I could go on, but I am too tired. I doubt I have changed your mind and you won’t change mine.
Oops! I almost forgot, natural immunity is better than forced immunity. That’s why the COVID numbers started coming down.
Vaccines are safe. The dose makes the poison. The "shot" is a vaccine. Literally thousands of studies have been done to show that vaccines (colloquially known as a "shot" in the US or "jab" in the UK, but all the same thing) are safe. The "antivax people" just refuse to accept facts.
Well not exactly. The antivaxxer says all vaccines are bad. Aluminum has been in deodorant for decades. Wouldn’t we be seeing mass deaths and disease from that if what you’re saying is true? The aluminum in a vaccine is very very small in comparison to what we get through foods we eat because it’s one of the most plentiful minerals on earth.
Aluminum in deodorants has been shown to NOT be ok. Why do you think the major deodorant brands have recently put out deodorant without Al? It is because they were loosing market share to the more natural, Al free deodorant companies.
No, it has not been shown to be any kind of health risk. That was a 1980s granola theory about links to breast cancer and Alzheimer's disease that have since been disproved... but marketers ran with it (decades ago btw) because their goal is to sell more products (even if those products are inferior-- deodorants don't stop sweating) not to educate the public.
Expect a deluge of crazy comments by the anti-vaccine crowd. Instead of giving them a forum, perhaps you could just disable commenting. I think you've already said all that needs to be said about this study.
What's rude is posting lies and half-truths about vaccines and vaccination. Actually, it's more than rude. It recklessly endangers the lives of others and fosters the spread of preventable communicable diseases.
There is no reason any ethical researcher should have -- in good faith -- published these results on a pre-print server. There is no urgency in getting these findings out to the public. If you believe in the robustness of your data and methods, wait until your peers have critiqued and commented on them. (MPH, epidemiologist/ scientific writer)
Unfortunately, this study does nothing to address the situation you describe. "Urgent" in the context of skipping peer review to release unreviewed results means something that may change clinical behavior in a crisis situation. Like results of different treatments tried in the early days of the pandemic.
In the best case scenario, preprint servers can provide a place for researchers to share urgent/ late breaking results when the lengthy peer review process could delay sharing vital information, or possibly to solicit review and comment from other scientists prior to submitting for review, esp if they don't have access to colleagues that would assist them (say very early career investigators in resource-poor settings).
In the worst case scenario, some authors (ab)use them to bypass the peer review process because they have concerns about being "scooped" by similar studies and want to get ahead of other publishers. To be clear, a lot of high impact journals look down on papers that have been released in the preprint setting because they want to be the ones that "break" the results and get the citations for it (which also even happens with abstracts, where an abstract can make the results seem stale and stall acceptance at a higher tier journal). So it's kind of risky to do that if you have good, valid results.
In the case of this study, given the interesting results but numerous limitations of the study design that would be obvious to the authors... it frankly seems like they were trying to circumvent the peer review process to get press about their results. There are just basic study design flaws (for instance, when you have a small sample, it's generally advisable to include multiple matched controls to increase statistical power... not fewer controls than cases) that even a casual reviewer would send back to them for correction. These researchers should also have expected that anti-science/ antivax media would immediately jump on and amplify these results, which to me makes it more egregious that they didn't wait for peers to ask them to dot their i's.
Wrt to abstracts: Abstracts for big conferences are reviewed at submission. Not as rigorously as a journal publication, but I've worked with authors whose abstracts have been rejected even from lower-tier conferences. Abstracts are also written for and distributed to an audience of peers, not the general or even the general scientific public. The expectation is that they are often preliminary or partial results, not completed work (if they were, they'd be submitting to journals). While in theory that would also be the case with preprint servers, that's not necessarily how they're used.
I never said the study was perfect. I didn’t argue it should’t be peer reviewed. It is a first step to getting some answers. It gives people who have been injured hope.
When you suffer from a chronic condition, that doesn’t even have reliable treatments, let alone a cure, hope is all you have.
As a layperson, I so very much appreciate scientists and doctors. I read through this and it was so interesting, but mainly proved to me how valuable science is. Thank you.
You know a student is trying when they become frustrated that a paper poses more questions than answers and that a bigger sample size or a better approach may answer those questions. I miss journal clubs!
This is a fine example of why I can easily dismiss the comments of those against vaccines.
First, I will not pay any attention to Facebook comments or FB pages as sources for reputable information. The mere fact that some "doctor" goes to FB is because no reputable medical or scientific publication will publish his nonsense. Scientific inquiries do not involve Facebook or any other social media, including YouTube. Sorry. My opinions, BTW, are based on years working in the Biological sciences (which I suspect you cannot claim to have) and years of reading actual research data from reputable medical researchers. I'm always happy to change my mind, but wild claims from those with an axe to grind or lies to promote are unlikely to accomplish that.
"Shots" vs "vaccines". Complete nonsense. Vaccines confer immunity. How long that immunity lasts depends on many things that have nothing to do with your opinion. Mutations of the viruses, for instance. Age, for another. This is just anti-vaxxers grasping at any straws they can pull on.
RFK Jr is simply dangerous. I'd also point out that he makes millions from selling useless snake oil. AND he has blood on his hands because of the lies he's told over the years, lies that gullible people have believed.
Your lack of trust is your problem. The fact that it's based on disinformation is concerning. I "trust" neither government nor "Big Pharma". This is why the scientific/medical "community" also includes thousands of other researchers that are connected to neither. Research gets done. Results are published. YOU choose not to accept them because you've been brainwashed. The fact that you would quote FB or RFK Jr merely proves it.
You've chosen to ignore the simple fact that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't bother making vaccines if they had to constantly defend their work from frivolous claims from everyone with a sore arm. So governments established a system to handle those claims in the interests of maintaining a supply of life-saving vaccines. The agenda here is all from the anti-vaxxers. They would like nothing better than to put vaccine manufacturers out of business. Prove me wrong.
Pregnant women CAN pass Hepatitis on to their babies IF what they have is Hep B. Sorry, but what you say simply isn't true. Hep C is less likely to be passed on and risk to baby is less than 5%. This is simply just another case of disinformation putting children at risk. Medical interventions CAN protect baby in either case.
As an aside, a reminder that there is a Measles outbreak in Texas. One child has already died. That child was unvaccinated. I think those parents should be charged with child neglect and/or manslaughter.
You want to know who vaccinates their children? People who work with viruses, who study vaccines, who actually know something. It is simply mind-boggling that people who know nothing claim to know more. I'd remind you that many of those people died of COVID. Unvaccinated individuals were multiple times more likely to die of COVID than vaccinated people. You want to be among the higher risk group with the next virus comes along? Have at it. H5N1 could very well be the next one. Your choices will have consequences.
I continue to be puzzled by claims that various professionals can't be trusted because they're paid to do their work. We live in countries where people are paid to everything they do. What do you expect? Doctors (vaccine manufacturers, and so on) to work for free? Is that the only way you will trust anyone? If they do whatever it is they do for nothing? Doctors, BTW, do NOT have a quota they need to attain. Perhaps talk to an actual doctor.
Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are not approved to treat COVID because they DO NOT WORK. There are a good number of studies that prove this. Your opinion does not counter good basic research. I can provide a number of research studies that show neither works for COVID. In fact, they can be dangerous when misused, which is what "treating" COVID with them is.
Finally, you simply do not understand what "gain of function" research is for. Talk to a virologist rather than someone in Facebook.
It's the 21st Century and yet the anti-vaxxers want to drag medical treatments back to the Middle Ages. It's absolutely astounding. And if you're offended, perhaps try using facts in your arguments, because I'm offended when people cause their children to get sick and die because of their stupidity.
I am one of the 42 people who submitted bio specimens for the study. Minimizing the immunological effects and the disabilities this vaccine has caused is not following science, but ignoring it. For many of us, there was a temporal relationship where adverse symptoms mostly neurological happened within several days .
Many of us have not had Covid and some of the people in this community still never developed Covid. To blame Covid for vaccine injuries is completely shortsighted and irresponsible.
Many of us were tested or developed symptoms early on in 2020 or early 2021 way before the omicron wave and were following lockdown precautions and not exposed to covid yet . Unfortunately, these vaccines created a lot of immune, mediated, illnesses, such as small fiber neuropathy. Articles like this are going to prevent people from receiving the help they need as they wait for more research. The study was small due to lack of funding and many people do not connect the dots and don't realize that new onset of symptoms were vaccine related.
Reactivation of herpes viruses has been reported in astronauts returning from space, with virus being shed. When long COVID symptoms were described my wife said that sounds like glandular fever (infectious mono). For these reasons I was not surprised by the paper, but I knew that certain people would make assumptions about it and not bother to look at in detail, or even the abstract. I think the reason it may have been rejected by journals is its length.
If memory serves there were reports of shingles following the COVID vaccine and disease. Herpes viruses have evolved alongside hominids for millennia. EBV has been implicated in the development of chronic diseases like certain cancers or multiple sclerosis.
The ingredients for all vaccines, especially the ones we're discussing here, the COVID vaccines, are easily found. The "neurotoxins" you refer to are NOT in those vaccines. Look it up. The definition of a vaccine is something (it could come from pus from an infected person like the first smallpox vaccine did) that causes your body to produce antibodies. That's what ALL vaccines do. The flu "shot" is a vaccine. All of them are. If you don't believe that's important, just have a wander through the death rates from polio, measles, tetanus, whooping cough and a whole host of other diseases that most of us have forgotten about BECAUSE VACCINES ARE SO SUCCESSFUL. Unfortunately anti-vaxxers ARE against vaccines. They can use whatever weasel words they want, but they ARE against vaccines.
Also keep in mind that vaccines are NOT a Star Wars Force Field. They simply cannot keep a virus from entering your body. They CAN mobilize the troops quickly to get rid of the virus once it's IN the body. That's how they work. The way they reduce spread in a community is by keeping most people from getting sick, or really sick, or dying. They are NOT 100% effective. Nothing is. But they ARE effective to a very high level.
Vaccines are also in a very unique situation, in that you give basically a medical treatment to a person who isn't sick (yet). We rarely do that in any other situations. People are different and some people react differently to various vaccines. I react to the artificial flavouring in certain kinds of cough lozenges. Some people react to peanuts. Some will, unfortunately, react to certain vaccines. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't safe. It means people are different. Over 16 Billion doses of COVID vaccines were administered globally. If they're so unsafe, where are the bodies? I've personally received 6 COVID mRNA vaccinations in the past 3 or 4 years. The worst I've experienced is a sore arm for a day. I also got COVID once, somewhere in those 3 or 4 years. I was tired for a day so I lay around and rested. That was it. BECAUSE of the vaccinations I'd received.
As for the mRNA itself, anyone who has taken Biology in High School might remember that mRNA is naturally found in most cells of the body where it works away to help make proteins. And no, mRNA cannot change your DNA. It's simply impossible.
Frankly, I think anti-vaxxers want us to go back to Medieval days where we had to resort of ineffective "treatments" like bloodletting and such.
I for one commend Yale New Haven for recognizing vax-injured long haulers when they did and including them in their long COVID related research. I am in their long COVID study and they hold patient Zoom meetings. While long COVID due to infection has garnered a lot of attention worldwide, these poor people who basically developed long COVID within ten days of getting vaxxed are dismissed everywhere they go. My mother in law is one of these people. Healthy as a horse and never had COVID (she basically goes nowhere in public) but developed crippling fatigue and EBV reactivation within days of the vaccine.
There are plenty of scientific studies out there with small sample sizes; let’s not act like this is something new or amateurish. Especially when no other group with such scientific bona fides has chosen to study this important issue.
I should add that there are THOUSANDS of these folks across the U.S. They participate in many of the long COVID online support groups and chats. So don’t fixate on the 42 here. This is a much bigger problem than our COVID-minimizing government (Dems AND Republicans) and useless media would have the public believe.
Frustrating how ignorant someone can be to gloss over a statement made by the PI saying more research needs to be done. Especially on a study with 42 data points to apply across the world population is idiotic and lacks common sense.
I am a massage therapist, not a medical professional of any kind! I'm fortunate to work with the same people every week the past many years! I know their bodies well. I immediately noticed after covid vaccinations began, clients complaining of joint pain that had never been an issue, clients coming in with severe inflammation randomly showing up in joints, complaints of arm/shoulder pain in relevance to shot site, noticing inflammation along the spine in clients who hadn't had issues before. I've quietly been wondering if these symptoms could possibly be caused by the vaccine. Wondering how to treat them best. Thanks for this info.
I have Long Covid (very clearly from an infection, not the vaccine) and I now experience joint pain (primarily neck, lower back, wrists/fingers, hips) among other debilitating symptoms. Aside from specific injection site pain, any of those types of symptoms could be triggered from a covid infection. This really speaks to the point of the article—we don’t have enough info to know what might be caused by the vaccine specifically, especially when huge swaths of the population also had covid infections by the time they were able to get a vaccine.
For me, the joint pain and muscle pain has declined over 2.5 years (though not gone). My RMT and physical therapist just focused on treating the symptoms the way they would have normally, covid-related or not. Providing some (temporary) relief was helpful, but ultimately the only thing that improved my baseline was time. Hoping we learn more soon and providers can then do more to help! 🤞🏼
I have joint pain. Have had for years. It's called osteoarthritis. It's also called getting old, which I am. I get joint pain from doing lots of things. Always have. Completely unrelated to vaccines as I've had the issues for 20+ years. I find anti-inflammatories helps.
Why is there no inquiry into the gut microbiome connection on poor response to the jab? I have seen studies saying the jab changes the microbiome, and I've felt that myself. It seems to make sense to me that people with an already-disturbed biome would be thrown further by the shot...or in some cases, maybe helped, if it took out something pathogenic? So much of the immune system is in the gut...
I’m sure the medical community will to its best to prevent any further research into this condition, and attack and smear anyone who does as a threat to public health as they have done for the past 4 years they have known about these patients and done absolutely nothing for them other than gaslight and attack them. The reason this is a small study is the fault of the exact people using that as an excuse to dismiss it. They have thousands of pvs patients in the listen study, and all their funding was exclusively provided to long covid patients, so this is as much they could scrape together for the vaccine injured, after years of waiting. But sure use that to continue to dismiss them, you’re showing everyone who exactly who you are.
There are already antivax folk online citing this yet to be peer-reviewed, unverified by similar research, small but interesting study as infallible evidence against COVID vaccination. I am astonished they found it so quickly, but I am not at all surprised that they grossly misinterpreted it.
What you don’t seem to understand is that the “antivax” people aren’t against vaccines, they are against unsafe vaccines.
The pharmaceutical companies put neurotoxins, like aluminum and thimerosal (which contains mercury), in the vaccines and shots to force the body to react.
What was injected into people was a shot, like the flu shot. They called it a vaccine so people would be more likely to get the shot.
Maybe what you call “misinterpreted” is those people having hope that research will be done to determine if the all
injectables are actually safe.
It would have been nice if all the criticisms of the study had been accounted for, but at least someone took the first step to find some answers.
The ingredients for all vaccines, especially the ones we're discussing here, the COVID vaccines, are easily found. The "neurotoxins" you refer to are NOT in those vaccines. Look it up. The definition of a vaccine is something (it could come from pus from an infected person like the first smallpox vaccine did) that causes your body to produce antibodies. That's what ALL vaccines do. The flu "shot" is a vaccine. All of them are. If you don't believe that's important, just have a wander through the death rates from polio, measles, tetanus, whooping cough and a whole host of other diseases that most of us have forgotten about BECAUSE VACCINES ARE SO SUCCESSFUL. Unfortunately anti-vaxxers ARE against vaccines. They can use whatever weasel words they want, but they ARE against vaccines.
Also keep in mind that vaccines are NOT a Star Wars Force Field. They simply cannot keep a virus from entering your body. They CAN mobilize the troops quickly to get rid of the virus once it's IN the body. That's how they work. The way they reduce spread in a community is by keeping most people from getting sick, or really sick, or dying. They are NOT 100% effective. Nothing is. But they ARE effective to a very high level.
Vaccines are also in a very unique situation, in that you give basically a medical treatment to a person who isn't sick (yet). We rarely do that in any other situations. People are different and some people react differently to various vaccines. I react to the artificial flavouring in certain kinds of cough lozenges. Some people react to peanuts. Some will, unfortunately, react to certain vaccines. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't safe. It means people are different. Over 16 Billion doses of COVID vaccines were administered globally. If they're so unsafe, where are the bodies? I've personally received 6 COVID mRNA vaccinations in the past 3 or 4 years. The worst I've experienced is a sore arm for a day. I also got COVID once, somewhere in those 3 or 4 years. I was tired for a day so I lay around and rested. That was it. BECAUSE of the vaccinations I'd received.
As for the mRNA itself, anyone who has taken Biology in High School might remember that mRNA is naturally found in most cells of the body where it works away to help make proteins. And no, mRNA cannot change your DNA. It's simply impossible.
Frankly, I think anti-vaxxers want us to go back to Medieval days where we had to resort of ineffective "treatments" like bloodletting and such.
You did so well until the last paragraph. When you insult people, they stop listening to you. No worries! I’m tough!
It seems like we get our medical information from different sources.
The shot is not a vaccine in that it does not give long term immunity.
Here is one doctor, of many, that presents different observations and information.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Ezjh26QJv/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Do your own scientific inquiry. As best you can, set aside what you know, any opinions, preconceived ideas or biases, and watch some of RFKJ’s videos where he presents the data.
Ignore what the media says about him and focus on the data. The data raises some questions.
There are some correlations that are worth investigating to determine if there is causation.
If you change the playback speed to 1.25 or 1.5, he sounds “normal”. Here is a link that explains spasmodic dysphonia. https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/29/health/rfk-jr-voice-spasmodic-dysphonia-wellness/index.html.
I do not know anyone that believes all vaccines and shots are bad. The extremists make the rest of us that have questions and are challenging the narrative look crazy. It’s the same with the crazies on the Left and the Right.
I am not crazy. I am educated and worked in a Cellular Biology lab at the local medical school. I worked with a PhD how was researching the cause of Septal Valve Defects in Down Syndrome patients. Our research was aimed at determining why those little valve cells stop progressing across the underlying matrix. We used chicken embryos for the control group and mice that were bred to have VSD.
In my “spare time” I was using SEM and gold leaf to follow the development of the arteries on the heart. FASCINATING!
I also worked in a Pathology lab.
But, I digress…
The very heart of and basis of science
is to question. We were not allowed to question. It is the first step
In the Scientific Method. List your hypothesis, aka your question.
Doctors that presented their observations from the patients they treated were silenced/cancelled, and threatened with the loss of their license. They had to go along with the narrative or suffer the consequences.
It has now been revealed that they were CORRECT! No surprise to me. From the beginning, nothing the government said made sense. It wasn’t logical. A teeny, tiny, microscopic virus would not be stopped by wearing a surgical mask. They were designed to protect patients on the operating table from sneezes and coughs.
The problems I have, as a “blood-letting
anti-vaxer” is that I don’t trust the government/Big Pharma anymore. They have lied and suppressed information for decades.
A big red flag is that the government gave immunity to the pharmaceutical companies. They cannot be sued for vaccine harm. After that, the number of new, required vaccinations went through the roof right along with the increased number of neurological disorders in children.
Correlation or causation?? That should be studied. Again, it raises questions that are not being addressed.
I don’t remember which vac on the schedule it is that had a horrible safety tracking system. Each time a dose was administered, the child was followed for 5 days. ONLY 5 DAYS! They didn’t really want to know if it was safe. It begs the question, did they already know their vaccine wasn’t safe?
I am so thankful, and so are my sons, that I turned down the Gardasil vaccine, that is given at age 12. Fifteen plus years ago we were inundated with information on the necessity of this vaccine. Now we know it is not safe. It would be interesting to know what their adverse reaction tracking plan was. How long was its safety studied before it went to market?
Again, questions!
Other issues I have are that physicians can suffer their own adverse effects, if their vaccination rate isn’t high enough.
Also, parents are told if they don’t give their babies/children at least the minimum required for school admission, they have to find another doctor.
This is a fact. My grandson was recently born. That is what they were told by the pediatrician. Coercion!
Doctors are paid for every vaccine they give. So, for the MMR, the doc is paid for each of the diseases.
Why are new born babies always given the HepB vax in the hospital? Newborns do not fit into the risk categories.
All of the moms are tested. A HepB negative mom cannot give her baby the disease. There is no MEDICAL reason for a baby of a healthy mom to be given the shot.
“Gain of function” research is so dangerous and it didn’t start with Fauci. Look into Lyme Disease. Scary stuff that might explain why Lyme and its co-infections are nearly impossible to cure and more government coverup.
The COVID pandemic is proof of that. Fauci had his dirty hands in that pot for a long time.
Again, the government lied and suppressed information.
More Questions!
Do you know why they demonized, mocked, and suppressed information about
Ivermectin, HCQ, and other at home treatments? Both of those are proven, viable treatments for COVID.
The answer is, If a treatment already existed for this virus, the pharmaceutical companies could not get the emergency use authorization they needed to bring their drugs to market. Millions of people were forced to take the shot. I do mean forced! It is coercion for an employer to fire employees, if they do not get the shot.
My husband very likely would be dead if my friend hadn’t known of an online doctor option. My husband’s doc, at the time, told him to take Tylenol, hydrate, and rest. Naturally, the infection and inflammation increased at a record pace.
The online doc gave my husband a 3 page protocol to follow. He was prescribed Ivermectin. Luckily, I was able to find an in network pharmacy that would fill the prescription. He was also prescribed Budesonide and a nebulizer. That kept him from having to go to the hospital. The rest of the protocol was over the counter. Thankfully, I already had a bunch of what he needed at home. Controversial things like, Zyrtec, Vit C, Vit D, NAC, probiotics…I also had HCQ on hand.
I could go on, but I am too tired. I doubt I have changed your mind and you won’t change mine.
Oops! I almost forgot, natural immunity is better than forced immunity. That’s why the COVID numbers started coming down.
I appreciate the dialogue! Have a great weekend!!
Can you tell me more about who Dr. Christine Smith is?
Vaccines are safe. The dose makes the poison. The "shot" is a vaccine. Literally thousands of studies have been done to show that vaccines (colloquially known as a "shot" in the US or "jab" in the UK, but all the same thing) are safe. The "antivax people" just refuse to accept facts.
Well not exactly. The antivaxxer says all vaccines are bad. Aluminum has been in deodorant for decades. Wouldn’t we be seeing mass deaths and disease from that if what you’re saying is true? The aluminum in a vaccine is very very small in comparison to what we get through foods we eat because it’s one of the most plentiful minerals on earth.
Aluminum in deodorants has been shown to NOT be ok. Why do you think the major deodorant brands have recently put out deodorant without Al? It is because they were loosing market share to the more natural, Al free deodorant companies.
So far no causal relationship between DO with AL and breast cancer. https://www.benthamdirect.com/content/journals/cmc/10.2174/0109298673269343231025070053
There are threshold levels of ingredients safety set for products by the CPSC.
No, it has not been shown to be any kind of health risk. That was a 1980s granola theory about links to breast cancer and Alzheimer's disease that have since been disproved... but marketers ran with it (decades ago btw) because their goal is to sell more products (even if those products are inferior-- deodorants don't stop sweating) not to educate the public.
Expect a deluge of crazy comments by the anti-vaccine crowd. Instead of giving them a forum, perhaps you could just disable commenting. I think you've already said all that needs to be said about this study.
That’s just rude!
What's rude is posting lies and half-truths about vaccines and vaccination. Actually, it's more than rude. It recklessly endangers the lives of others and fosters the spread of preventable communicable diseases.
There is no reason any ethical researcher should have -- in good faith -- published these results on a pre-print server. There is no urgency in getting these findings out to the public. If you believe in the robustness of your data and methods, wait until your peers have critiqued and commented on them. (MPH, epidemiologist/ scientific writer)
There is urgency if you are debilitated and can’t get the care you need because the almighty government doesn’t recognize the diagnosis.
Having a chronic illness that insurance won’t pay for because the government won’t acknowledge it is a horrible situation to be in.
Unfortunately, this study does nothing to address the situation you describe. "Urgent" in the context of skipping peer review to release unreviewed results means something that may change clinical behavior in a crisis situation. Like results of different treatments tried in the early days of the pandemic.
Having read the study, I agree with you Sheri. The findings seemed quite weak to me.
I have a legit question. I’m not trying to start an argument.
What is the purpose of the server this was posted on?
It seems to me, it is like publishing an abstract before the entire research project has been peer reviewed.
In the best case scenario, preprint servers can provide a place for researchers to share urgent/ late breaking results when the lengthy peer review process could delay sharing vital information, or possibly to solicit review and comment from other scientists prior to submitting for review, esp if they don't have access to colleagues that would assist them (say very early career investigators in resource-poor settings).
In the worst case scenario, some authors (ab)use them to bypass the peer review process because they have concerns about being "scooped" by similar studies and want to get ahead of other publishers. To be clear, a lot of high impact journals look down on papers that have been released in the preprint setting because they want to be the ones that "break" the results and get the citations for it (which also even happens with abstracts, where an abstract can make the results seem stale and stall acceptance at a higher tier journal). So it's kind of risky to do that if you have good, valid results.
In the case of this study, given the interesting results but numerous limitations of the study design that would be obvious to the authors... it frankly seems like they were trying to circumvent the peer review process to get press about their results. There are just basic study design flaws (for instance, when you have a small sample, it's generally advisable to include multiple matched controls to increase statistical power... not fewer controls than cases) that even a casual reviewer would send back to them for correction. These researchers should also have expected that anti-science/ antivax media would immediately jump on and amplify these results, which to me makes it more egregious that they didn't wait for peers to ask them to dot their i's.
Wrt to abstracts: Abstracts for big conferences are reviewed at submission. Not as rigorously as a journal publication, but I've worked with authors whose abstracts have been rejected even from lower-tier conferences. Abstracts are also written for and distributed to an audience of peers, not the general or even the general scientific public. The expectation is that they are often preliminary or partial results, not completed work (if they were, they'd be submitting to journals). While in theory that would also be the case with preprint servers, that's not necessarily how they're used.
I never said the study was perfect. I didn’t argue it should’t be peer reviewed. It is a first step to getting some answers. It gives people who have been injured hope.
When you suffer from a chronic condition, that doesn’t even have reliable treatments, let alone a cure, hope is all you have.
As a layperson, I so very much appreciate scientists and doctors. I read through this and it was so interesting, but mainly proved to me how valuable science is. Thank you.
You know a student is trying when they become frustrated that a paper poses more questions than answers and that a bigger sample size or a better approach may answer those questions. I miss journal clubs!
This is a fine example of why I can easily dismiss the comments of those against vaccines.
First, I will not pay any attention to Facebook comments or FB pages as sources for reputable information. The mere fact that some "doctor" goes to FB is because no reputable medical or scientific publication will publish his nonsense. Scientific inquiries do not involve Facebook or any other social media, including YouTube. Sorry. My opinions, BTW, are based on years working in the Biological sciences (which I suspect you cannot claim to have) and years of reading actual research data from reputable medical researchers. I'm always happy to change my mind, but wild claims from those with an axe to grind or lies to promote are unlikely to accomplish that.
"Shots" vs "vaccines". Complete nonsense. Vaccines confer immunity. How long that immunity lasts depends on many things that have nothing to do with your opinion. Mutations of the viruses, for instance. Age, for another. This is just anti-vaxxers grasping at any straws they can pull on.
RFK Jr is simply dangerous. I'd also point out that he makes millions from selling useless snake oil. AND he has blood on his hands because of the lies he's told over the years, lies that gullible people have believed.
Your lack of trust is your problem. The fact that it's based on disinformation is concerning. I "trust" neither government nor "Big Pharma". This is why the scientific/medical "community" also includes thousands of other researchers that are connected to neither. Research gets done. Results are published. YOU choose not to accept them because you've been brainwashed. The fact that you would quote FB or RFK Jr merely proves it.
You've chosen to ignore the simple fact that pharmaceutical companies wouldn't bother making vaccines if they had to constantly defend their work from frivolous claims from everyone with a sore arm. So governments established a system to handle those claims in the interests of maintaining a supply of life-saving vaccines. The agenda here is all from the anti-vaxxers. They would like nothing better than to put vaccine manufacturers out of business. Prove me wrong.
Pregnant women CAN pass Hepatitis on to their babies IF what they have is Hep B. Sorry, but what you say simply isn't true. Hep C is less likely to be passed on and risk to baby is less than 5%. This is simply just another case of disinformation putting children at risk. Medical interventions CAN protect baby in either case.
As an aside, a reminder that there is a Measles outbreak in Texas. One child has already died. That child was unvaccinated. I think those parents should be charged with child neglect and/or manslaughter.
You want to know who vaccinates their children? People who work with viruses, who study vaccines, who actually know something. It is simply mind-boggling that people who know nothing claim to know more. I'd remind you that many of those people died of COVID. Unvaccinated individuals were multiple times more likely to die of COVID than vaccinated people. You want to be among the higher risk group with the next virus comes along? Have at it. H5N1 could very well be the next one. Your choices will have consequences.
I continue to be puzzled by claims that various professionals can't be trusted because they're paid to do their work. We live in countries where people are paid to everything they do. What do you expect? Doctors (vaccine manufacturers, and so on) to work for free? Is that the only way you will trust anyone? If they do whatever it is they do for nothing? Doctors, BTW, do NOT have a quota they need to attain. Perhaps talk to an actual doctor.
Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are not approved to treat COVID because they DO NOT WORK. There are a good number of studies that prove this. Your opinion does not counter good basic research. I can provide a number of research studies that show neither works for COVID. In fact, they can be dangerous when misused, which is what "treating" COVID with them is.
Finally, you simply do not understand what "gain of function" research is for. Talk to a virologist rather than someone in Facebook.
It's the 21st Century and yet the anti-vaxxers want to drag medical treatments back to the Middle Ages. It's absolutely astounding. And if you're offended, perhaps try using facts in your arguments, because I'm offended when people cause their children to get sick and die because of their stupidity.
I am one of the 42 people who submitted bio specimens for the study. Minimizing the immunological effects and the disabilities this vaccine has caused is not following science, but ignoring it. For many of us, there was a temporal relationship where adverse symptoms mostly neurological happened within several days .
Many of us have not had Covid and some of the people in this community still never developed Covid. To blame Covid for vaccine injuries is completely shortsighted and irresponsible.
Many of us were tested or developed symptoms early on in 2020 or early 2021 way before the omicron wave and were following lockdown precautions and not exposed to covid yet . Unfortunately, these vaccines created a lot of immune, mediated, illnesses, such as small fiber neuropathy. Articles like this are going to prevent people from receiving the help they need as they wait for more research. The study was small due to lack of funding and many people do not connect the dots and don't realize that new onset of symptoms were vaccine related.
Reactivation of herpes viruses has been reported in astronauts returning from space, with virus being shed. When long COVID symptoms were described my wife said that sounds like glandular fever (infectious mono). For these reasons I was not surprised by the paper, but I knew that certain people would make assumptions about it and not bother to look at in detail, or even the abstract. I think the reason it may have been rejected by journals is its length.
If memory serves there were reports of shingles following the COVID vaccine and disease. Herpes viruses have evolved alongside hominids for millennia. EBV has been implicated in the development of chronic diseases like certain cancers or multiple sclerosis.
The ingredients for all vaccines, especially the ones we're discussing here, the COVID vaccines, are easily found. The "neurotoxins" you refer to are NOT in those vaccines. Look it up. The definition of a vaccine is something (it could come from pus from an infected person like the first smallpox vaccine did) that causes your body to produce antibodies. That's what ALL vaccines do. The flu "shot" is a vaccine. All of them are. If you don't believe that's important, just have a wander through the death rates from polio, measles, tetanus, whooping cough and a whole host of other diseases that most of us have forgotten about BECAUSE VACCINES ARE SO SUCCESSFUL. Unfortunately anti-vaxxers ARE against vaccines. They can use whatever weasel words they want, but they ARE against vaccines.
Also keep in mind that vaccines are NOT a Star Wars Force Field. They simply cannot keep a virus from entering your body. They CAN mobilize the troops quickly to get rid of the virus once it's IN the body. That's how they work. The way they reduce spread in a community is by keeping most people from getting sick, or really sick, or dying. They are NOT 100% effective. Nothing is. But they ARE effective to a very high level.
Vaccines are also in a very unique situation, in that you give basically a medical treatment to a person who isn't sick (yet). We rarely do that in any other situations. People are different and some people react differently to various vaccines. I react to the artificial flavouring in certain kinds of cough lozenges. Some people react to peanuts. Some will, unfortunately, react to certain vaccines. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't safe. It means people are different. Over 16 Billion doses of COVID vaccines were administered globally. If they're so unsafe, where are the bodies? I've personally received 6 COVID mRNA vaccinations in the past 3 or 4 years. The worst I've experienced is a sore arm for a day. I also got COVID once, somewhere in those 3 or 4 years. I was tired for a day so I lay around and rested. That was it. BECAUSE of the vaccinations I'd received.
As for the mRNA itself, anyone who has taken Biology in High School might remember that mRNA is naturally found in most cells of the body where it works away to help make proteins. And no, mRNA cannot change your DNA. It's simply impossible.
Frankly, I think anti-vaxxers want us to go back to Medieval days where we had to resort of ineffective "treatments" like bloodletting and such.
I for one commend Yale New Haven for recognizing vax-injured long haulers when they did and including them in their long COVID related research. I am in their long COVID study and they hold patient Zoom meetings. While long COVID due to infection has garnered a lot of attention worldwide, these poor people who basically developed long COVID within ten days of getting vaxxed are dismissed everywhere they go. My mother in law is one of these people. Healthy as a horse and never had COVID (she basically goes nowhere in public) but developed crippling fatigue and EBV reactivation within days of the vaccine.
There are plenty of scientific studies out there with small sample sizes; let’s not act like this is something new or amateurish. Especially when no other group with such scientific bona fides has chosen to study this important issue.
I should add that there are THOUSANDS of these folks across the U.S. They participate in many of the long COVID online support groups and chats. So don’t fixate on the 42 here. This is a much bigger problem than our COVID-minimizing government (Dems AND Republicans) and useless media would have the public believe.
Frustrating how ignorant someone can be to gloss over a statement made by the PI saying more research needs to be done. Especially on a study with 42 data points to apply across the world population is idiotic and lacks common sense.
I am a massage therapist, not a medical professional of any kind! I'm fortunate to work with the same people every week the past many years! I know their bodies well. I immediately noticed after covid vaccinations began, clients complaining of joint pain that had never been an issue, clients coming in with severe inflammation randomly showing up in joints, complaints of arm/shoulder pain in relevance to shot site, noticing inflammation along the spine in clients who hadn't had issues before. I've quietly been wondering if these symptoms could possibly be caused by the vaccine. Wondering how to treat them best. Thanks for this info.
I have Long Covid (very clearly from an infection, not the vaccine) and I now experience joint pain (primarily neck, lower back, wrists/fingers, hips) among other debilitating symptoms. Aside from specific injection site pain, any of those types of symptoms could be triggered from a covid infection. This really speaks to the point of the article—we don’t have enough info to know what might be caused by the vaccine specifically, especially when huge swaths of the population also had covid infections by the time they were able to get a vaccine.
For me, the joint pain and muscle pain has declined over 2.5 years (though not gone). My RMT and physical therapist just focused on treating the symptoms the way they would have normally, covid-related or not. Providing some (temporary) relief was helpful, but ultimately the only thing that improved my baseline was time. Hoping we learn more soon and providers can then do more to help! 🤞🏼
it's also probably a pretty safe assumption that those same people had a Covid infection as well, so...
Many of the side effects people speak of can be caused by the virus as well. It's just often worse with the virus.
I have joint pain. Have had for years. It's called osteoarthritis. It's also called getting old, which I am. I get joint pain from doing lots of things. Always have. Completely unrelated to vaccines as I've had the issues for 20+ years. I find anti-inflammatories helps.
I believe you! My massage therapist made the same comment.
Why is there no inquiry into the gut microbiome connection on poor response to the jab? I have seen studies saying the jab changes the microbiome, and I've felt that myself. It seems to make sense to me that people with an already-disturbed biome would be thrown further by the shot...or in some cases, maybe helped, if it took out something pathogenic? So much of the immune system is in the gut...
I’m sure the medical community will to its best to prevent any further research into this condition, and attack and smear anyone who does as a threat to public health as they have done for the past 4 years they have known about these patients and done absolutely nothing for them other than gaslight and attack them. The reason this is a small study is the fault of the exact people using that as an excuse to dismiss it. They have thousands of pvs patients in the listen study, and all their funding was exclusively provided to long covid patients, so this is as much they could scrape together for the vaccine injured, after years of waiting. But sure use that to continue to dismiss them, you’re showing everyone who exactly who you are.
in other words it’s complete nonsense.
Do you subscribe to Jessica Rose or Sasha Latpoyva or Dr. Robert Malone by chance? Great articles about the spike protein
Only problem is they are full of BS. Evidence is lacking for their antivax claims.
What are exactly the claims that make them "anti tax"
https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/scicheck-scientist-misleads-on-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-and-vaccine-safety-for-children/